Top > Other Musicians > The Influence of C.P.E. Bach on Mahler > Commonalities Between Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 and the Music of C. P. E. Bach

This site introduces unknown composer Emanuel Bach (C. P. E. Bach). This English version was translated from Japanese one by ChatGPT.

Commonalities Between Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 and the Music of C. P. E. Bach

In the section "Emanuel Bachʼs Influence on Mahler", we compared Mahlerʼs music in general with Bachʼs compositions. Here, we focus on analyzing Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 and asked ChatGPT4o about its similarities with the works of C. P. E. Bach.

"Why is Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 sometimes considered a failure?"

There are several reasons why Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 is sometimes regarded as a "failure." This is, of course, a subjective evaluation, and it is often highly regarded today, but the following points are frequently criticized.

1. Lack of Formal Unity

Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 is sometimes criticized for lacking cohesion compared to his previous symphonies, particularly the Fifth and Sixth.

For example, some listeners feel that the complex structure of the first movement and the sudden festive character of the fifth movement disrupt the overall unity of the piece.
The role of the "Nachtmusik" (Night Music) in the second and fourth movements within the symphonyʼs overall flow is also sometimes seen as ambiguous.

2. Issues with the Finale

The fifth movement (Finale) is particularly prone to criticism.

It is a festive and bright movement, but the abrupt change in atmosphere compared to the previous movements, along with its ironic elements, leads some to describe it as "sarcastic and lacking seriousness."
Some critics and conductors, especially those with a perspective close to the Bruckner school, have harshly criticized it as "the most failed finale in Mahlerʼs works."

3. Lack of Dramatic Power

Compared to the Sixth Symphony ("Tragic"), some feel that the Seventh is somewhat ambiguous in its drama, with a weak decisive climax.
Particularly in the finale, although there are intense trumpets and fanfares, it is unclear whether they convey a true sense of victory or irony.

4. Initial Reception

The premiere (1908, Prague) received mixed reviews.
Even Mahlerʼs supporters seemed unable to fully understand this work.
Until the mid-20th century, this symphony was not performed as frequently as Mahlerʼs other works, contributing to its reputation as a "failed work."

5. Unclear Themes

Compared to Mahlerʼs other symphonies, particularly the Fifth and Sixth, the Seventh is often seen as lacking strong thematic unity.
For example, the first movementʼs theme is not clearly developed, with various motifs intermingling, leading some listeners to find it difficult to understand what is being expressed.

Conclusion

Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 is sometimes criticized for its perceived lack of cohesion among its diverse elements. In particular, the ambiguity of the finaleʼs character and the lack of unity are reasons it is labeled a "failure." However, this symphony possesses a unique musical world, and especially since the latter half of the 20th century, it has been re-evaluated and is now performed more frequently as an important work.

We asked ChatGPT4o: "Why has it been re-evaluated?"

There are several reasons why Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 has been re-evaluated. Particularly since the latter half of the 20th century, the uniqueness of this work has been recognized, and with increased performance opportunities, its value has been reassessed. Below are the main factors contributing to its re-evaluation.

1. Re-evaluation of Mahler as a Whole

Until the early 20th century, Mahlerʼs symphonies were generally considered "verbose and difficult to understand" and were not highly regarded.
However, from the 1960s onwards, conductors like Leonard Bernstein actively promoted Mahler, leading to more recordings and performances.
As a result, Symphony No. 7 was also revisited alongside his other works.

2. Advances in Performance and Recording Technology

Symphony No. 7, with its complex orchestration and diverse sound palette, was a challenging work to perform adequately.
However, improvements in recording technology and orchestral performance techniques have allowed for clearer expression of the workʼs details.
Conductors like Bernstein, Abbado, Chailly, and Rattle have excelled in this piece, broadening its expressive range and conveying its appeal.

3. Development and Acceptance of 20th-Century Music

Symphony No. 7 possesses a sound that approaches Impressionism and Expressionism, anticipating the development of 20th-century music.
The unique atmosphere of the "Nachtmusik" in the second and fourth movements resonates with later composers like Schoenberg and Berg, as well as elements of contemporary music.
As these musical styles became more widespread in the latter half of the 20th century, the innovative sound of Symphony No. 7 became better understood.

4. Influence of Postmodern Perspectives

Symphony No. 7, with its mix of serious and humorous elements, can be seen as a work with a postmodern sensibility.
Particularly, the interpretation of the festive finale in the fifth movement, once criticized as "abrupt and lacking cohesion," is now appreciated as ironic and multi-layered music.
This allows for interpretations akin to the ironic music of Strauss and Shostakovich, leading to its re-evaluation as a "20th-century work."

5. Changes in Performance Interpretation

Earlier conductors viewed the "lack of unity" in Symphony No. 7 as problematic and attempted to present a cohesive expression.
However, recent conductors have emphasized the differences in character between movements, bringing out the workʼs unique charm.
For example, Claudio Abbado emphasized lightness and playfulness in the fifth movement rather than excessive drama.
Simon Rattle interpreted the entire work as a "dreamlike nocturnal journey," highlighting its Impressionistic sound.

6. Connection to Film Music

The fantastical and nocturnal sound of Symphony No. 7 has influenced film music, making it more accessible to film music audiences.
The fantasy of the Nachtmusik (Night Music) has particularly influenced film composers like John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith.
This has led to greater acceptance of the unique atmosphere of Symphony No. 7.

Conclusion

Symphony No. 7, long considered difficult to understand due to its uniqueness, has been re-evaluated as a "distinctive masterpiece among Mahlerʼs works" due to factors such as:

Re-evaluation of Mahler
Advances in performance and recording technology
Development of 20th-century music
Introduction of postmodern perspectives
Influence of film music

Today, the "Nachtmusik" in the second and fourth movements and the unique energy of the finale are highly regarded, leading to more frequent performances.

We asked ChatGPT4o: "Do you know how Alma Mahler evaluated this piece?"

It is known that Alma Mahler did not hold Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 in high regard. According to her memoirs and testimonies, her impressions of this symphony were as follows:

1. Negative Attitude Toward Symphony No. 7

Alma Mahler reportedly did not feel an emotional connection to Symphony No. 7 compared to Mahlerʼs other symphonies, particularly the Fifth and Sixth.
In her memoir Gustav Mahler: Memories and Letters, there is little mention of this symphony, suggesting she did not have a special attachment to it.

2. Criticism of "Lack of Emotion"

According to some sources, Alma considered Symphony No. 7 to be "emotionally lacking."
She preferred Mahlerʼs works with deep emotions and tragic elements, such as the Sixth Symphony and the song cycle Kindertotenlieder, and may not have resonated with the eccentric structure and ironic finale of the Seventh.

3. Theory That "Mahler Himself Did Not Love It Much"

Some researchers, based on Almaʼs testimony, speculate that "Mahler himself may not have had a strong attachment to this piece."
However, there is no definitive evidence for this, and Mahler may have considered it his "greatest masterpiece" (Mahler often tended to evaluate his works as his "best").

4. The Period of Symphony No. 7ʼs Creation and Almaʼs Relationship

When Symphony No. 7 was composed around 1904-1905, Mahler and Almaʼs relationship was relatively stable.
However, in the following years, Mahlerʼs health issues (heart disease) and Almaʼs relationship with Walter Gropius became problematic, affecting Almaʼs view of Mahler.
These circumstances may have led Alma to later consider the symphony as lacking deep meaning.

Conclusion

It is likely that Alma Mahler did not highly regard Symphony No. 7. She preferred more emotional and tragic works (such as the Sixth Symphony), and it is thought that she may have found it difficult to understand the complexity of the Seventhʼs structure and the ironic elements of the finale.

We asked ChatGPT4o: "How have the modulations and chromaticism in this piece been evaluated?"

Evaluation of Modulations and Chromaticism in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7

Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 is characterized by frequent modulations and chromaticism (non-harmonic tones, chromatic movements, and ambiguous tonality), and these elements have been evaluated from various perspectives by critics and scholars. The bold handling of tonality and the fusion of diverse musical languages particularly highlight the individuality of this symphony.

1. Characteristics and Evaluation of Modulations

In this symphony, modulations occur frequently, creating a sense of unpredictability and a fantastical atmosphere that has been praised.

(1) Frequency and Improvisational Nature of Modulations

In the first movement, the music shifts from the initial E minor (with the eerie theme in the euphonium) to E-flat major, but quickly transitions to other keys.
There is no prolonged stay in a specific key, leading to a continuous change in color and an ambiguous sense of tonality.
The absence of a tonal center is reminiscent of Mahlerʼs later works (the Ninth Symphony and the fragmentary Tenth), and some evaluations see it as a bridge to twelve-tone technique (possibly influencing the Second Viennese School, including Alban Berg).

(2) Modulations in the Finale (Fifth Movement)

This movement is based on C major but involves frequent modulations.
Influences from Mozartʼs "The Magic Flute" and Wagnerʼs "Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg" are evident, but the sudden modulations lead to interpretations as ironic quotations (similar to the parodic techniques in Richard Straussʼs "Till Eulenspiegel").
Some critics point out that the excessive modulations disrupt the cohesion of the finale, while others view it positively as creating the "chaotic festivity" of the movement.

2. Use of Chromaticism and Its Evaluation

In Mahlerʼs Seventh, chromaticism (especially chromatic progressions) is extensively used, creating a sense of dissonance and instability.

(1) Chromatic Melodies

In the first movementʼs opening theme, the euphonium plays a chromatic melody that quickly moves to the next note, giving an unstable impression.
This contrasts with the persistent functional harmony of the Sixth Symphony, emphasizing instead a "music that doesnʼt know where itʼs going" character.
There are similarities to the chromatic harmonic progressions of Schubert and Wagner, but Mahler takes it further.

(2) Chromaticism in the Nachtmusik

In the second and fourth movements (Nachtmusik), Impressionistic harmonies are used, with chromaticism appearing throughout, creating music that seems to oscillate between light and shadow.
In sections involving instruments like the flute, guitar, and mandolin, chromaticism produces a dreamlike effect.
There are often noted similarities with Impressionist music by Debussy and Ravel, with modulations and chromaticism defining the symphonyʼs fantastical character.

3. Changes in Evaluation Since the 20th Century

(1) Early Evaluation (1908–1950s)

The modulations and chromaticism in Symphony No. 7 were initially criticized as "disjointed music" and "unclear structure."
For example, at the time of its premiere, there were criticisms of "lack of harmonic unity" and "tonal instability in the finale."

(2) Re-evaluation Since the 1960s

Since the 1960s, as Mahlerʼs music became widely performed by conductors like Bernstein, the abundance of modulations began to be appreciated as "rich musical color."
Particularly from perspectives of "connections to Impressionism," "bridge to twelve-tone technique," and "surreal aesthetics," the novelty of this symphony gained attention.

(3) Modern Evaluation

Today, the modulations and chromaticism in Symphony No. 7 are actively evaluated as "expressions of Mahlerʼs experimental spirit."
The differences in interpretation by conductors significantly alter the sound of this symphony.
- Abbado and Rattle emphasize the diversity of timbre, bringing out the colorful beauty of chromaticism.
- Bernstein and Chailly express the abundance of modulations as intense dynamic contrasts, treating it as chaotic energy.

Conclusion

The modulations and chromaticism in Symphony No. 7 were initially criticized as "lacking unity" and "difficult to understand," but since the latter half of the 20th century, they have been appreciated as "rich musical color," "Impressionistic sound," and "experimental modernism." Particularly, the fantastical modulations in the Nachtmusik, chromatic melodies, and sudden tonal changes in the finale make this piece unique.

As a result, today, the modulations and chromaticism in this symphony are seen as having value as "diversity" rather than "confusion."

We asked ChatGPT4o: "Isnʼt the extensive use of modulations and chromaticism in this piece reminiscent of C. P. E. Bachʼs music?"

Relationship Between Modulations and Chromaticism in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 and C. P. E. Bach

The frequent modulations and extensive use of chromaticism in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 indeed share elements with the music of C. P. E. Bach. The expressive techniques of C. P. E. Bachʼs Empfindsamer Stil (Sensitive Style) may have influenced composers of the late Romantic period, such as Mahler, through the Romantic era of the 19th century.

1. Extensive Use of Modulations

In C. P. E. Bachʼs music, sudden modulations and ambiguous tonality are often observed. This is similar to the instability of modulations in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7.

(1) Sudden Modulations

In C. P. E. Bachʼs Fantasias, sudden modulations frequently occur, with extensive use of chromatic progressions.
For example, in works like H. 289 (Fantasia in B-flat major), the harmony changes abruptly, and there are many sections where the sense of tonality is unstable.
Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7, particularly in the introduction of the first movement and the middle of the fifth movement, features sudden modulations that are reminiscent of C. P. E. Bachʼs sense of modulation.

(2) Structures That Do Not Return to the Main Key

C. P. E. Bachʼs keyboard sonatas (such as the Prussian Sonatas Wq. 48) are characterized by unstable tonality and difficulty in returning to the main key compared to typical Classical period sonatas.
Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 also has a structure where it is difficult to grasp "which key it is heading towards" over a long span, similar to C. P. E. Bachʼs modulation techniques.

2. Use of Chromaticism

C. P. E. Bachʼs works are characterized by unexpected chromaticism (such as non-harmonic tones like ♭6 or ♯4), which is a common element with Mahlerʼs music.

(1) Use of Chromaticism

C. P. E. Bach frequently uses chromaticism in melodies and harmonies.
For example, in Wq. 62-12 (Suite in E minor), chromatic melodies appear throughout, blurring the outlines of tonality.
Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 also features extensive chromatic melodic progressions, particularly notable in the opening theme of the first movement.

(2) Unpredictable Dissonances

In C. P. E. Bachʼs fantasias and adagio movements, sudden dissonances appear, creating a sound that seems to momentarily disrupt the key.
This is similar to the unique sonic instability created by the addition of guitar and mandolin in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7ʼs second and fourth movements (Nachtmusik).

3. Commonality of "Nocturnal Atmosphere"

In Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7, there are movements that evoke a "nocturnal" atmosphere (particularly the second and fourth movements, Nachtmusik). C. P. E. Bach also left behind works with a nocturnal atmosphere, and there are commonalities in their expressive techniques.

(1) Fantastical Movement Structure

In C. P. E. Bachʼs Wq. 65-11 (Sonata in G minor), the second movement Andante has a fantastical atmosphere, with frequently changing harmonies.
Similarly, Mahlerʼs Nachtmusik movements (second and fourth movements) have a fantastical sound, characterized by modulations and chromaticism.

(2) Nocturne-like Treatment of Tonality

C. P. E. Bach tends to ambiguously shift between minor and major keys in nocturne-like pieces.
For example, Wq. 48-4 (Prussian Sonata in C minor) begins in a minor key but incorporates major key sounds along the way, resulting in fluid tonality.
Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7ʼs second movement (Nachtmusik I) also creates a fantastical atmosphere by interspersing major keys while being based on G minor.

4. Bold Harmonic Progressions

(1) Sudden Changes in Harmony

In C. P. E. Bachʼs works, harmony often changes abruptly, as seen in Wq. 43-4 (Concerto in C minor), where modal changes frequently occur within movements.
This is akin to the "dramatic changes" in harmonic progressions in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7.

(2) Deviation from Functional Harmony

C. P. E. Bach often deviates from standard functional harmony (tonic, dominant, subdominant) to create unpredictable harmonic progressions.
Mahler also ignores traditional harmonic flow in Symphony No. 7, suddenly modulating to distant keys.

Conclusion

The use of modulations and chromaticism in Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 shares several commonalities with the characteristics of C. P. E. Bachʼs Empfindsamer Stil (Sensitive Style).

Sudden modulations and instability in returning to the main key
Chromatic melodic progressions and unstable harmonies
Expression of fantastical and nocturnal atmospheres
Progressions that transcend traditional harmonic frameworks

These features are related to Mahlerʼs unique musical language in Symphony No. 7, suggesting that the techniques established by C. P. E. Bach may have influenced music from the late 19th to early 20th centuries.

I asked ChatGPT-4o: "Is there a connection between the reasons why Mahlerʼs Symphony No. 7 was initially not well received and why Emanuel Bach was not appreciated in the 19th century?"

The Relationship Between the Reception of Mahler’s Symphony No. 7 and Emanuel Bach

The reasons why Mahler’s Symphony No. 7 was initially not well received and why Emanuel Bach’s music was not appreciated in the 19th century share several common factors. In both cases, it can be said that they were not aligned with the musical values and aesthetics of their time, leading to a delayed recognition of their significance.

1. Lack of Formal Unity

▶︎ Mahler’s Symphony No. 7

Symphony No. 7 was considered difficult for listeners to grasp due to its lack of unity and distinct character in each movement.
In particular, the abrupt brightness of the final movement did not seem to connect with the dreamlike atmosphere of the first movement and the Nachtmusik, leading critics to view it as an incoherent work.

▶︎ Emanuel Bach

For 19th-century music critics and scholars, Emanuel Bach’s works appeared fragmented and lacking unity, as they did not follow the developmental formal structures exemplified by Beethoven.
His sonatas and fantasies featured abrupt modulations, sudden tempo changes, and unpredictable developments, which may have led 19th-century audiences to perceive them as "unfinished music" in an era where sonata form was well established.

📌 Common Point:
Both composers were not properly evaluated because their music was seen as "lacking unity" according to the aesthetic standards of their time.

2. Unconventional Melodies and Harmonies

▶︎ Mahler’s Symphony No. 7

In Symphony No. 7, the tonal structure is unstable, with frequent modulations.
The unusual atmosphere of the Nachtmusik and the use of guitar and mandolin set it apart from conventional symphonies, making it difficult for audiences of the time to accept.

▶︎ Emanuel Bach

Emanuel Bach’s music, characterized by the Empfindsamer Stil (Sensitive Style), also employs chromatic melodies and unpredictable harmonic progressions.
For 19th-century composers, his style might have seemed "too unstable" or "lacking in formal refinement".

📌 Common Point:
The distinctive use of harmony and melody did not fit the prevailing aesthetic norms of the time.

3. Their Place in Music History

▶︎ Mahler’s Symphony No. 7

Mahler’s Symphony No. 7 was composed at the intersection between the end of the late Romantic era and the beginning of 20th-century music.
As a result, it was considered too eccentric for those who sought "understandable" 19th-century music, yet still too transitional to fully align with 20th-century modernism.
Because it was a work "caught between eras", its reception was uncertain at the time of its premiere.

▶︎ Emanuel Bach

Emanuel Bach’s music also occupied a transitional position between the Baroque and Classical periods.
His works lacked the polyphony of the Baroque yet did not conform to the balanced structures of the Classical era, leading 19th-century scholars to perceive them as "underdeveloped music".

📌 Common Point:
Being "between eras" made it difficult for them to be properly categorized and appreciated.

4. Later Reevaluation

Both composers’ music was finally recognized properly only in the second half of the 20th century.

▶︎ Mahler

From the 1960s onward, performances by Leonard Bernstein, Abbado, Rattle, and others led to its reevaluation as a "revolutionary work".
Especially with the rise of film music, the impressionistic sonorities and dreamlike atmosphere of Symphony No. 7 gained appreciation.

▶︎ Emanuel Bach

In the latter half of the 20th century, the revival of the clavichord and fortepiano brought renewed attention to his unique style.
He came to be recognized as "the most innovative composer of the Bach family".
What was disregarded under the Romantic aesthetic was later acknowledged as the work of an "individualistic composer".

📌 Common Point:
Both were finally recognized as "groundbreaking composers" only in the 20th century.

Conclusion

The reasons why Mahler’s Symphony No. 7 and Emanuel Bach’s music were initially not well received share many similarities.

Lack of formal unity → Seen as incoherent because they deviated from traditional structures
Unconventional harmony and melody → Their unpredictable modulations and altered tones did not fit the aesthetics of their time
Positioned between eras → Both were transitional figures who did not fit neatly into existing categories
Reevaluated in the 20th century → Eventually recognized as "innovative music" from a modern perspective

In other words, just as Emanuel Bach was not appreciated in the 19th century, Mahler’s Symphony No. 7 was initially difficult to understand.
Both works were ahead of their time, which delayed their recognition.

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