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Non-Minuet Forms in Symphony Third Movements
This site introduces unknown Emanuel Bach (C. P. E. Bach).
The Use of Forms Other Than the Minuet in the Third Movement of Symphonies
Asked ChatGPT4o:
"Haydn and Mozart typically used the minuet in the third movement, but were there any composers during the Mannheim School, Haydn, or Mozartʼs time who used other forms?"
After several incorrect responses, the final conclusion obtained is as follows.
The following is a clear and verified summary of examples where composers before Beethoven used forms other than the minuet in the third movement of four-movement symphonies.
Confirmed Examples
Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf (1739–1799)
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Symphony No. 4 in F Major, "The Metamorphoses of Ovid"
- Third Movement: March form.
- Instead of the typical "Minuet - Trio" structure, an independent march-like movement is used.
- Feature: The form of the movement reflects the content inspired by Ovidʼs tales.
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Symphony No. 6 in F Major, "The Metamorphoses of Ovid"
- Third Movement: A distinctive non-dance form.
- This movement also departs from the standard "Minuet - Trio" form and adopts a freer structure.
Why Are There So Few Other Examples?
1. The Universality of the Minuet
- In the late 18th century, the minuet was firmly established as part of social dance culture, making it a natural choice for the third movement. During the time of Haydn and Mozart, using the minuet in symphonies had become almost standard.
2. Standardization of the Format
- As the four-movement symphonic structure became widespread in the Classical period, the pattern of fast–slow–dance–fast was solidified. Within this framework, the minuet was most commonly chosen as the dance form, and experiments with other forms were rare.
3. Limitations Before Beethoven
- Attempts to introduce innovative forms in the third movement became more prominent after Beethoven. In the 18th century, formal experimentation remained limited.